GPT-driven induced lucid dreams + sleeping pills + sleeping pods makes for a nice dystopian near-future movie plot where there's a new class of ever more hardcore Hikikomori that not only never leave their house, they also sleep for 20 hours per day and only wake up to do hygiene and so on. Maybe a further version includes supporting staff for life support maintenance like in paliative care place but for "never-awoke" people just sleep and navigate induced dreams 24/7 by having IV nutrition and staff to clean and turn them in bed.
This reminds me of my time spent being completely addicted to VRchat at the peak of the pandemic. Most of my time was either spent sleeping or in virtual reality
You're being downvoted because a lot of people don't like off-topic politics here, but you're right that a lot of imagined sci-fi dystopias that we get scared of in comment sections are not realistically as bad as what people around the world are actually going through right now.
I'm sorry, there's no chance I'll use transcranial ultrasound to manipulate my brain. People who want to lucid dream can do it the old fashioned way without being worried about things like cavitation of their brain cells. There's a reason the NHS recommends that people don't use things like 4D ultrasound as a form of entertainment.
That they describe transcranial ultrasound as "non-invasive" is absurd. Either it does something or it doesn't. The paper linked in the article describes the mechanism of TUS as:
"Opening of ion channels -> ruptures in membrane -> thermal tissue ablation" in order of increasing intensity of stimulation.
Usually the term "non-invasive" in a medical context means they don't need to cut you open to do something; not that an intervention doesn't do something.
Fair enough, yes. That said, people need to understand that this (as I understand it from the article) is absolutely having a physical tissue-level effect on their brains, and it's not necessarily a good thing.
One of my early Amiga programs was for triggering lucidity. Just a voice record and then playback via some long repeating timers, eg 'you are dreaming', worked quite well.
In Advaita vedanta there are 4 states of existence of self.
First is the outer world where there is a concept ok others and physical world. This is the world is beyond our control. There is suffering in this world.
Next is the dream state where we can control everything. This is illuminated by our own mind. Even then there is limits of what we can do. Continuous lucid dreaming gives us fatigue for those experiences.
Third is dreamless state where there is nothing but pure consciousness. This is one of the best states as there is only self and nothing else. You can experience this during general anesthesia etc.
Fourth which Advaita vedanta calls the ultimate realization is where you realize that you are the self and there is only self. That the pure consciousness is singular and same for all. In fact there is no all. There is just consciousness.
I think we are approaching the same line of thinking but via biology.
> This is one of the best states as there is only self and nothing else. You can experience this during general anesthesia etc.
I suspect, but don't know for sure, that most people remain (barely) conscious during dreamless sleep, or at least parts of it. However, we don't remember it as sleep. When we are awaken in the middle of dreamless sleep we simply believe we were lost in our internal monologue.
This is most apparent when somebody is taking a nap, possibly even snoring, and when awakened they believe they were not sleeping at all.
Now, in most people, this dreamless sleep isn't a quiet, sharp, blissful experience, but rather a blurry incoherent mess of internal monologue.
If you practice falling asleep consciously, you will find your internal monologue progressively become more and more incoherent and disjointed, until a point when (REM) dreams manifest "out of thin air". This is easiest done as you approach your usual waking time, what in lucid dreaming circles is called WILD.
That is my personal experience, anyway.
I also believe that experienced meditators go through dreamless sleep with far less chatter and are able to maintain a sharp vivid blissful experience through the night.
If you go back to sleep later in the morning closer to daylight, and manage to slip into a certain stage of the cycle, you’re more likely to have vivid dreams that you might be able slip into lucid dreaming for.
I've had the ability to induce lucid dreams for years now. What they aren't telling you is that it's very easy to lose oneself in the fantasy of it all. At worst, it can induce complete detachment and schizophrenic-like symptoms.
Others here have given some good methods. I should clarify that I can't do it on command, but rather, I can encourage it with a good degree of success.
It leaves you really tired the next day, so it's but something I typically do more than once a week or so.
I read about lucid dreaming on wikibooks, iirc this was before the movie inception.
Do you guys actually control your dreams?
How do you keep bad things from happening?
More importantly, do you remember anything when you wake up?
Knowing that you are dreaming and controlling what happens in the dream are separate experiences. You can have one without the other, or you can experience both at once.
> How do you keep bad things from happening?
This again is independent of lucid dreaming. I find that nightmares are more likely when you feel too hot in bed and when you are stressed.
In a lucid dream, one in which you don't even need to be in control of the dream, you should be able to recognize that nothing in the dream can harm you. A dream lion wants to eat you? Let go and be eaten: no real harm is done.
At a more advanced level you may be able to recognize that the dream lion is a manifestation of your own fear and respond to it with compassion. When you do that, it will either become friendly or vanish.
> More importantly, do you remember anything when you wake up?
There is no way to know what has happened when we forget about it, whether dreaming or not. Selection bias is at play.
The biggest challenge to recreational lucid dreaming is not remembering what happened in the dream, or being able to control the dream. The biggest challenge is remembering what is it that you wanted to achieve in your next lucid dream.
That all said, while recreational lucid dreaming can be a fun experience, there is a much deeper practice called dream yoga which I would recommend to anybody is past the novelty phase of lucid dreaming. Alan Wallace wrote a book titled "Dreaming yourself awake" which I can recommend.
> Do you guys actually control your dreams? How do you keep bad things from happening?
I've only had lucid dreams a few times, but my experience with dreaming -- both lucid and the regular kind -- is that dreams seem to work on anticipation; what you expect to happen next is more or less what happens next. If you think "there better not be a monster under my bed..." there's gonna be a monster under your bed because you're anticipating a monster.
Once you realize you're dreaming you can exercise some control over it by basically willing things to happen -- imagine your finger extending to push a button on the other side of the room, anticipate the feeling of the touch of the button, and it will stretch. I did that as an "am I dreaming?" test once and became lucid briefly before waking up.
Be careful about your expectations though -- I've done other dream tests where I just asked myself if I was dreaming and immediately dismissed it as not a dream since I'd gotten in the habit of immediately dismissing the tests in waking life! I was really annoyed when I woke up and realized what had happened...
In one of the dreams I became lucid in, I tried flying and was able to do that successfully but almost immediately became worried I'd crash into a ditch, so of course I crashed into a ditch and woke up.
> More importantly, do you remember anything when you wake up?
I've always woken up from lucid dreams (as far as I know, anyway) so I remember them the same as waking from a vivid dream or nightmare.
I only remember dreams when I'm sleeping lightly. When I do I'm usually quickly aware it's a dream. It's very seldom I wake up and only then realize it's been a dream, I can only recall 3-4 times this has happened and I'm 40+.
Most of the times when I become aware I can control the dream, and it feels like I'm directing a movie of sorts. If I don't like where the dream is going I go back a bit and re-dream a different path, so to speak.
Since I sleep lightly in these cases I often incorporate external elements. For a while I had a radio alarm clock and I'd incorporate bits of the news or any stories the radio host told into my dreams, usually turning them very weird, but not in a bad way.
Only ever had one bad dream as an adult, but it was really bad. It was one where I was aware but not fully in control, I was dreaming I was in one of the video games I played at the time and had a good time. But then I ended up getting trapped underwater and drowned. That woke me up and it felt horrible. The feeling of hopelessness and knowing you're about to die really left a mark. Took me a long time to get over it, and I still get the chills thinking about it now 15 years later.
For me, yes. Not always fully though. Depends on the level of lucidity.
> How do you keep bad things from happening?
When you are lucid, you don’t fear bad things. They seem merely interesting. In a lucid dream, usually the reality you’re in seems as real as the waking reality. Full resolution, full range of senses. Because it’s the same mechanism. Your brain is presenting a reality to your consciousness, doing the same job it does all the time, the only difference with real life is that it’s hallucinating the inputs instead of taking them from external world. Just like LLMs.
In order to maintain lucidity, you need to maintain a mental state what people with derealization disorders experience in real life: A sense of distance from what you see, touch and hear and a a constant knowledge that the world is not real. Again, because it all seems as real as the real world. Otherwise you can get caught up in the dream’s reality pretty easily, and when you do it just turns into a normal dream where you can get scared. Takes practice and meditation helps.
> More importantly, do you remember anything when you wake up?
You start to remember them once you start journaling your dreams. People only forget their dreams because they automatically label them as unreal and thus insignificant once they wake up. You remember what you deem important.
I practiced LD for a good while back then. Then life and stuff happened. Writing this just inspired me to start the habit (of LDing) again. Thank you.
Anyone can learn it, but it gets harder with age. I don’t check HN much, mail me if interested.
> In a lucid dream, usually the reality you’re in seems as real as the waking reality. Full resolution, full range of senses. Because it’s the same mechanism.
I have no doubt that’s how you see it, but that experience if definitely not universal. It’s never “full resolution” or “full range of senses” for me.
> Otherwise you can get caught up in the dream’s reality pretty easily, and when you do it just turns into a normal dream where you can get scared.
Also doesn’t jive with my experience. My lucid dreams always end with me waking up, they never revert to regular dreams.
Again, I have no doubt you experience things the way you described them. But your use of “you” instead of “I” makes it seem like the points are universal, and thus someone reading your post may try to only pursue that specific path.
I don’t lucid dream often, but when I realise I am dreaming sometimes it makes zero difference and in others I can think calmly and change my actions as if I were awake.
I have a peculiarity (unsure how common this is) in my dreams where every place is different from their real counterpart but the same between dreams. So whenever I am in control in a dream, I use the opportunity to explore the area and uncover more of the geography/architecture for subsequent dreams. The issue with control is that the more of it I exert, the more I feel myself waking up. The reverse is also true. So I have to take turns exploring and “letting go” (i.e. don’t make decisions) to balance it out and remain in the dream state as long as possible. It’s always a matter of time and the more I realise that is happening the closer I am to waking up.
> How do you keep bad things from happening?
Like what? It’s only a dream and I don’t sleepwalk. I don’t fear nightmares because I’m glad when I wake up and they weren’t real.
> More importantly, do you remember anything when you wake up?
Yes, otherwise how would we know lucid dreaming is a thing?
> Yes, otherwise how would we know lucid dreaming is a thing?
This might be getting TMI but sometimes I remember some things happened but I don't remember the details. For example, I flew around indoors in a museum or had these long conversations with my parents.
I don't remember what was said in those conversations but I am afraid one of these days I'll remember what we talked about and not realise it wit for real and when I actually talk to my parents they are going to be really confused.
I do have lucid dreams (not a lot, a bit more recently, started 8 years ago and I had a dozen), I do not control them. I do think I have some control on their overall direction, but not direct control. And definitely not the kind of control my awake mind would have, because the decisions I seem to take are irrational or dumb, or both.
I think I'm able to decide to not dream while being in a lucid dream if I think I'm too tired (that happened to me only twice, but quite recently, the last time was last week). It's not a decision I would have taken while really conscious I think. I also 'chose' too wake up before my alarm clock (my asleep mind wanted to go get groceries before work. My awake mind was cold and lazy...).
Its hard to explain, not on demand (I'm sure I could work on it), I remember the whole dream when I wake up but it fades quickly. Sometimes they are emotionally draining (the two first lucid dreams I had I woke up crying, the first from joy and the other one was bittersweet, like a good relationship you have to let go). Those I remember better.
While I'm happy there's more R&D going on in this field, I'm highly skeptical about the use of TcU -- people move around to much while sleeping for this approach to be effective or safe... and there are less invasive ways to accomplish this.
One of my projects is a dreaming machine which combines eeg, sounds, and lights to aid in recognition of dream states. The eeg data is used to generate ambient soundscapes that change theme based on the level of sleep (awake/rem/light/deep) and during rem sleep it triggers a set of leds mounted inside of my sleep mask. It works fairly well and is totally passive/non-invasive.
When I was a kid, I would dream that my friends were visiting, so I would get out of bed and sleep walk around the house to go see them. Then I would walk in the living room and wake up and realize that there was no one there.
Sorry to hear that and sorry for nagging you but I couldn't possibly be more intrigued after reading this! Can't you just like dream up a bed or a nice hammock on a beautiful Caribbean beach and go to sleep in the dream or something? Or is my understanding of what lucid dreaming (having never experienced it, probably... never tried on purpose, never wondered about it) too much like Inception and not enough like it really is?
I've never felt tired in a lucid dream, so the thought of going to bed in the dream doesn't make any sense for me... I've always been wide awake in them.
There are some benefits to it if you're able to harness it. I've solved plenty of different programming problems in my dreams, only to get up in the morning and then go through the motions again to make them real. Sometimes it feels like the day is just on cruise control because you've already done this.
And while in lucid state, does time feel faster/slower or about the same? I get lucid dreams sometimes but either I get too conscious and wakeup or eventually forget that I was lucid therefore I haven't been able to experiment much with it.
So for you do you spend whole 8 hours lucid and does it actually feel like that?
Let them play out without controlling the dreamscape.
Alternatively, close your (dream) eyes and let the dream dissolve intro dreamless sleep. You will still be lucid, but there will be no dream, only empty consciousness. It feels sort of like floating disembodied in an empty boundless dark space. It is a blissful experience.
If you get bored of that you may be able to recreate the dreamscape, just like when you perform WILD.
I have a neighbor who watches TV all night, and they’re up early. I’ve met several people like this. It’s a thing.
I doubt it’s a “trip” they’re after.
I’ve thought about their dreaming, and my hypothesis is tv noise tricks the brain to not identity or disassociate from the dream. I guess they sleep better than when they sleep in silence.
The novelty wears off. Bear in mind that you don't control when they occur. Also, a lucid dream is not quite the same experience as being normally awake -- you are still dreaming and accessing your memories is surprisingly difficult, so you will typically not remember what you had set to achieve in your next lucid dream.
That said, I think the biggest realization of being a frequent lucid dreamer is: how is it possible that most of us don't even realize that we are dreaming? Dreams feel completely different from real life.
>> Bear in mind that you don't control when they occur
> You can very well control when they occur, e.g. if you do WILD
We are talking of different scenarios. It becomes a chore when you are lucid dreaming frequently without any prior intention to do so.
The way out of that is letting go of your desire of controlling your lucid dreams, and instead let them play out like a movie. You are still lucid, since you still know it's all an illusion, just like when you watch a movie IRL.
The person who told me that made it sound like they were lucid dreaming every dream. Like they learned the trick so well they couldn’t turn it off. Don’t know how realistic that is.
Yeah, that can happen. You eventually learn to stop controlling the dreams and instead let them unfold like a movie. They become not very different from non-lucid dreams in a practical sense, other than the fact that you still know they are an illusion.
Get in the habit of checking if you are dreaming. Try doing something that you know can't happen but imagine it will work while trying it. e.g. Jump while imagining that you will start floating instead of landing back on the ground. Hold your hand up and imagine your coffee mug will jump into it. If you do stuff like that regularly -- every day -- then eventually you will do one of the tests in a dream too but instead of failing like it would in waking life, it will play out how you imagined it.
Just don't get in the habit of immediately dismissing the idea that you are in a dream. I did that once -- asked myself if I was in a dream and thought "of course not!" because I'd gotten in the habit of dismissing the tests -- and was very annoyed when I woke up... Test the idea seriously every time it occurs to you.
I found it kind of a tedious thing to do and eventually fell out of the habit, but it worked well enough for me that I was able to have a few lucid dreams.
One trick I have heard is to force yourself to develop a habit in your waking life where once every couple of hours you consciously asked yourself "Am I awake right now?", paired with something physical like looking at your hands or something. The idea is that if you develop this as a habit eventually you will do it in a dream, at which point you will realise you are dreaming.
Generally it seems that very light sleep, (like when you wake up in the morning but snooze the alarm and go back to sleep) is more conducive to lucid dreaming. Some people set alarms at intervals throughout the night to achieve this but that can be very destructive to sleep health.
Oddly enough for some reason once I was about 20 years of age I only ever have lucid dreams, with 2 exceptions over 10 years. I don't know what triggered it.
