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17% may leave their job, but I'm sure many more simply stay put without truly being engaged, all the while collecting a paycheck.

Recognition arbitrage, employees claiming credit for the work of others, by corporate-climber types is probably to blame in many cases. From my experience, credit usually goes to whoever delivers the results or the news first. Smart corporate climbers will go to great lengths to be the first to take credit for new ideas or inventions within a company, and they will work hard to maintain a high profile.

I've tried to do a modest amount of self-promotion to stay visible within my companies after a few very bad experiences early in my career. Just as importantly, I try to go out of my way to call out another person's accomplishments whenever I get an opportunity.

A company that fails to recognize valuable people isn't likely to succeed. When self-aggrandizing people are promoted faster than the get-it-done types, I take it as a red flag that management has no clue how things are actually done within the company. Companies who instead go out of their way to recognize valuable team members and promote those who work hard will end up with competent and motivated management. Now if only I had identified this pattern earlier in my career I could have avoided some train-wreck companies.



It's not only corporate-climber types stealing credit though, it really can be just a complete failure to understand worker motivations.

At my last job, I was part of a major migration project that had taken something like three or four years total (I was only with them for the last two years). Because the project had come in so late and so overbudget, the powers that be set a seemingly arbitrary go-live date and told us to just get it done.

We all worked long hours for a long time to get this done, and when it finally went live we were told they wanted to take the team out for a celebration. That later morphed into "well, everyone else on the project (meaning client project, not my migration team) had to learn the new system too, so we should take everyone out to celebrate everyone!" completely minimizing just how much my team had done, since we had not only learn and adapt like everyone else had, but we learned it first and had to teach it to everyone else.

That celebration, btw, never ended up happening. Instead, there was an announcement at around the same time saying there would be no raises across the entire (10,000 person) company.

I got fed up and left (read: snapped and was fired) a few months later, but I heard from a friend that they had the same announcement this year ("no raises") on the same day that the company sent out an email saying "you should watch the Indy 500 this year, since we spent an assload to sponsor it".

That ended up as much more of a self-entitled rant than it was intended to be, but I think my underlying point still shines through.


Just curious, but do you care to elaborate on the snapping incident. I have come close to "snapping" myself so to speak, so I'm curious what exactly happened.


It paints me in a bad light, I know, but sure... why not?

For background, suffice it to say that the manager in this story, who was my boss at all times except my time with the migration project I mentioned, was not well liked, and for good reason. This is a man who micromanaged absolutely everyone and everything, was insulting (called me and my "whole generation" - I was 23 at the time - a bunch of slackers, told me I was "getting too big for my britches" when I made a fairly innocuous suggestion, and repeatedly talked about other employees behind their backs), and seemed to only care about making himself look good.

Anyway, my firing:

I had been working on a fairly high profile assignment, lots of pressure, etc. and had worked on my own time until 4am the previous day. I was running on maybe 3 hours of sleep, so I was more on edge than usual. I mentioned this extra work to the boss, and asked if I could go home at 4pm that day (1.5hr early). Anyway, the day progresses and I was finally able to finish my tests, get peer reviews done (a story unto itself), and passed my work off to be installed my the clients production control team right at 4pm, so I had to wait to confirm they hadn't screwed up the install - a very real concern, btw.

Anyway, around 4:30 the boss calls, asking me about a "post-implementation review" (something was installed and had run for the first time, so the programmer needs to confirm initial results) that I was supposed to do a few days earlier. Genuine mea culpa here, as I had just plain forgotten about it and didn't realize it was even installed yet, and had been distracted by the "OMG GET IT DONE NOW" assignment being installed in this story.

He told me that since I was "overbudget" (I had logged about 54 hours on a 50 hour estimate), I was not to charge any more time to that ticket. This essentially means "work for free." He also told me to have it done by 9am the next morning, so my choice was either stay late or come in early and work, so I told him since I was already staying late waiting for prod control, I'd do it right then.

So, my install was completed a few minutes later, so I spent 10-20 minutes confirming the install before starting the requested post-implementation review. This review, btw, was estimated as an hour of work, for good reason. I had to go through a week or so of production runs to try to find data that had actually ran through the logic I changed.

I hadn't actually found any runs through my changes by 5:30, when the boss left for the day. He stopped by my desk on the way out, and "joked"

> What are you still doing here? Didn't you ask to leave early today?

I explained, calmly at first but steadily angering, that I had wanted to leave early but since he had told me to get this thing done by the morning, not to charge time for it, etc. I was stuck here. He told me to just go home and do it in the morning, but I explained that if I have to work extra hours for free, I should do it at night so I don't fuck up my billable hours for the next day and be forced to stay late to make that day balance.

There was a bit of back and forth, but I ended up visibly angry and yelling a bit. He told me, forcefully, "go home."

I left, choosing to take the stairs to try to burn off steam, but the anger overflowed and I yelled "Stupid fucking piece of shit job" about a floor and a half down.

I went home, beat the shit out of a couch pillow, and broke down crying.

The next day, I went in and started to work on that same post-implementation review, and the boss came over and took me to a conference room. My new project manager, first day on the job, was there already. They told me I was suspended for three days, and they took my badge, etc.

On my way out, I passed my HR rep, which made me think she was supposed to be there for the meeting, but who knows. I went home and wrote my side of the story to that same HR manager. I got a response that afternoon (around 5pm) thanking me for my side, and giving me a formal letter of suspension.

I heard reports from a friend that my phone was disconnected around 2pm that day, so clearly I was fired before I got the letter of "suspension." This was even confirmed by another friend who talked to a guy in IT who said that same HR woman called them to terminate my accounts around 2pm the day I was suspended. She apparently called back a few minutes after it was done, panicking, saying she had only meant to suspend me. I still think I was accidentally fired, then actually fired to cover for it.

Anyway, that's the story. AMA.


At least you're honest, I honestly think bad managers and bad working environments have a way of breaking even the best individuals. At a certain point everyone snaps or breaks.


Yeah, I definitely have to take my portion of the blame (I wasn't exactly a model employee, at least when I was working for that manager), but I really do think that manager and the environment he cultivated really affected me. I had actually been on a couple of two-week stress leaves about six months prior to my leaving the company.

I used to dream about leaving that job, and I guess I just finally reacted in a way that got me out of it, even if it wasn't ideal. After I lost the job, my girlfriend explained that "for as much as you bitched about that job, you were never actually going to quit." and she was absolutely right. The fear of quitting and having to find a new job was too much for me.

I've been out of a job for a bit more than a year now. I see ads all the time that maybe I could do, but I don't always apply because I don't feel qualified for them. It's really starting to get to me.


You should probably ask yourself why you're avoiding applying for these jobs you mentioned. If it's because of rejection, well there are a lot of people on here that will tell you better than I can that you shouldn't be afraid of being rejected.

I had the same problem for a while, until I realized that the worst that could happen is either you get no response, or they will tell you "thanks but no thanks". If you do get an interview, then that is an opportunity to meet interesting people, and possibly learn something.

The key here is approaching interviews less as a time for some people you don't know to judge you and more as an opportunity for you and some other people to learn about each other. You can learn an awful lot about business, the market, people's technical and non-technical problems, if you make an effort to go on interviews. You may even learn something about yourself, or have a brilliant idea for a project.

Besides, "unqualified" isn't the right word at all. It's more accurate to say that you have a different skill set (based on your horrible migration story) - and skill sets are easy to change, given time and motivation.


You should probably ask yourself why you're avoiding applying for these jobs you mentioned.

Simple. I'm tired of spending an hour on a cover letter, tailoring my resume, looking up contacts at the company, etc. only for all my work to be piped directly to /dev/null.

When I first lost my job, I sent out a bunch of resumes to places hiring for jobs I wanted to do. A .Net developer here, a Java developer there. I never heard back from anything I wanted.

I gave up and applied for a job similar to my last one, and got an offer. They ended up not getting the contract, and I was left with the bill for calling their number across the country for the technical interview, and the bill for a scanner/printer (didn't have one then) that I needed to sign and send back the offer.

I went through a series of phone interviews about a month ago for a junior QA position. After three weeks and three phone interviews with HR, a technical interviewer, and a manager, I got a message from noreply@company.com with a PFO form letter.

I still send resumes to things, but I generally limit that to jobs explicitly marked "entry level" that rarely come in.

If you know anyone hiring in Canada (I'm living 500km from "home" right now, so I don't much care where in Canada) for an entry level position, let me know. I'll work my ass off to get up to speed, I'll work long hours, whatever it takes.


I've been out of a job...

So what projects are you working/have you worked on?


At the moment, I have a website that I'm working on. I'm generally terrified of speaking publicly about it, since I'm taking my time with it, and anyone here would consider it a weekend project. Since it's the first major project I've undertaken, I'm absolutely paralyzed by design considerations, etc. since privately I'm quite the perfectionist. When I'm working for someone else, I know I don't have the luxury of being a perfectionist, so I've learned to make the necessary tradeoffs, but privately it doesn't work that way.

I want to be able to leverage this project to get a proper job ("hey look at this! I've shipped something!"), so that just drives my paranoia into overdrive. Literally hours spent messing about with colours ("Is this yellow ok, or should it be more muted?"), rather than coding an extra feature. The colour point is rather moot anyway, since I've got a touch of ye olde colourblindness.

I think I should set a target - I'll have it online by... the end of next week! We'll see how I do.

The rest of my, shall we say, "vacation" has been spent

a) terrified that I'll never get a job again:

I'd spent three years in COBOL-land and any pretense of actual skill had long since rusted over. I had pretty much no inclination to code anything after work, since the job sapped my energy so well.

Even before that job, I still didn't think I was really any good. A programmer-turned-sysadmin friend of mine from college seems to think I'm good. When he moved to England, he said something about maybe recommending me for the job he was leaving. When I expressed these concerns, he said I was smart and could pick things up fast, had faith in me, etc. Unfortunately, my self-esteem sucks, and it's reflected in the projects I start.

I tried to teach myself C#, Java, some python.. but I got so caught up in the details that I didn't get anywhere. I wasn't creative enough to come up with a solid "use it in anger" project, so I'd just give up.

Now, I've got the aforementioned web project, and I'm teaching myself PHP to get it done, but I still feel like a pretender.

b) RSI.

I had started seriously learning from UNSW's YouTube videos, and was reading lots of books, taking notes, etc. when my arm was engulfed in pain. For a couple months, I didn't type much, didn't do much.. I was convinced I was royally screwed and would never be able to code again... at age 25. The pain has mostly gone - I've typed this whole thing without pain - but it does come back from time to time, though the same friend I mentioned earlier is convinced it's psychosomatic at this point. He's probably right, to be honest.

c) Job offer.

I signed a conditional offer back in February, to do a job horribly similar to my last job. I figured I could take that job and use the money from it to take courses, etc. I thought the structure would help me maintain enough inertia. Instead, the job fell through when that company didn't get the contract they were hiring for. It took until June to get that notice. I'd used it as an excuse for being lazy during that time, thinking the problem was solved when it wasn't. Incidentally, the RSI started about the same time the job fell through, thus strengthening the case for the RSI being psychosomatic.

Sorry for ranting, but when I started writing this, I got self-conscious about how lazy/incompetent/whatever I am, and I think I'm being defensive when it isn't necessarily called for. I just.. I don't think things are actually going to work out, and it occasionally makes me contemplate suicide. I need to catch a break, but I haven't earned it yet.

/rant


You have an impressive amount of self awareness - I think that's by far the most valuable thing one can possess. Some suggestions:

a) Push the baby out by this week. If you're anything like me, the improvement in your actual project will be exponential.

b) This is a little harder to explain, but I'll do my best. I've felt inadequate many times in my life, and it can be paralyzing.

You need to be OK with failure, because life is full of it. That doesn't mean you should accept it, but it means that your worth shouldn't be defined through being successful, and you shouldn't be crushed by failure. How you do that is really up to you - I've found my own way - but once you're OK with that, you won't feel like you have to "earn" your breaks, and the need to perfect things will decrease.

I hope this is helpful. I don't want to offer more advice than I can chew, but I wanted to at least say something. Feel free to shoot me a message.


You have an impressive amount of self awareness - I think that's by far the most valuable thing one can possess.

It sounds valuable, but too much self awareness is crippling. You question everything about yourself, and when you realize your own insignificance it's remarkably depressing.

a) Push the baby out by this week.

I'll try, but there's a long way to go. I've never touched jQuery before, and I'm rusty with everything else I'm using. "This week" probably isn't feasible, but I'll do what I can to have it out by the end of next week. I'll post it here when I do.

Thanks for all the advice. It's definitely appreciated, especially now that I've spent the last hour explaining my deficiencies to HN.


xatax, man, I cannot say I feel your pain, but they are times when I feel like giving up. Here is the beautiful thing in your situation: you are 25. My roommate was out of work for one year then bam he landed a job paying twice as much as his last one when he was willing to take 1/2 of it. I am teaching myself some php, feel free to ping me for a feedback loop. My email is in my profile.

And launch the darn app. It cannot do it itself.


In my workplace I've seen a colleague take a swing at the boss as he walked past. With a knife.

Boss was completely oblivious and didn't notice.

My standard for 'snapping' is now way higher than a rant and some swearing, but that is absolutely not a good thing.




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