One can be for free movement, free trade, peace and 'growing together' without being Pro-EU.
The EU is not a abstract entity that only lives of ideas. Its a concrete implementation of these ideas (and many others). This implementation I judge to be deficient. The issues are to many to list here, but I just wanted to state the principe.
Europe can achieve most of the things you want without the EU. Switzerland has many of those things with the EU states. You can easily have all these contracts as bilateral contracts that everybody signs. Then you can do the joining and leaving independently, creating much better incentives for both the people who create the contracts as for the participants in the contract.
Their are already tons of things like that, and their could be more. Look at ESA for example.
> This is not always easy, and it means, that the richer parts have to give to the poorer, but that is just basic humanity.
You totally falsely imply that the richer part "HAVE TO" to give the poorer parts money to achieve these goals. That is totally false. Only with a currency their is a real issue and that is solvable even if you want a common currency without massive redistribution.
What you are doing is deceptive, you are making a operational argument for a issue that relates to moral. If we choice this kind of redistribution, we should do it based on MORAL properties and not operational issues.
Switzerland and Norway (where I'm from) has the worst of it. They're essentially member states without any voting privileges. We pay a large sum of money each year, and we implement a most of their laws, without any representation in the union proper.
The voting privilege is really not that important. Switzerland does not get forced to implement laws that they don't want. Currently Freedom activists in Switzerland try to fight new surveillance laws, that would be required if we were in the EU. German and Austria have a huge amount of problems because they are in the EU.
Switzerland also has more freedom to have other international agreements, both with states in and outside of the EU.
Switzerland and Norway can join the parts that they like and avoid many others. They have agree to pay certain amounts but they not immediately have to pay more if the EU sets up something new. They have much more control over their spending.
I am not against many of the things the money are spent on so the fact that we are paying, is not that relevant. It is relevant that we have control over it. In Switzerland I can get a bunch of people to sign something and the population will vote on the issue. That why we are not in the EU in the first place.
> Obviously, you can't affect the laws in the EU which as an EFTA member you don't have to implement.
Sure, as an EFTA member we have a veto, which we always never use because it always trigger repercussions or sours or relationship with the EU, on which market we're completely dependent.
That being said, I don't necessarily think Norway should be a member of the EU, as I think we'd be too small to make a significant difference. UK on the other hand, had a lot of sway within the union, and it's sad to see them leave this behind for a potential "Norwegian solution".
This is correct. It is possible to have co-operation, trade and agreements of all sorts without having an additional layer of government (and a rather unaccountable form of government, at that).
The EU is not a abstract entity that only lives of ideas. Its a concrete implementation of these ideas (and many others). This implementation I judge to be deficient. The issues are to many to list here, but I just wanted to state the principe.
Europe can achieve most of the things you want without the EU. Switzerland has many of those things with the EU states. You can easily have all these contracts as bilateral contracts that everybody signs. Then you can do the joining and leaving independently, creating much better incentives for both the people who create the contracts as for the participants in the contract.
Their are already tons of things like that, and their could be more. Look at ESA for example.
> This is not always easy, and it means, that the richer parts have to give to the poorer, but that is just basic humanity.
You totally falsely imply that the richer part "HAVE TO" to give the poorer parts money to achieve these goals. That is totally false. Only with a currency their is a real issue and that is solvable even if you want a common currency without massive redistribution.
What you are doing is deceptive, you are making a operational argument for a issue that relates to moral. If we choice this kind of redistribution, we should do it based on MORAL properties and not operational issues.